1. Welcome to projectilethrowers.ca! We are a brand new community focusing on lifestyles that make Canada great. Everyone is welcome! Come on in and bring your friends and family!
    Dismiss Notice

"Whatever it takes to save the Earth, cause Granola girls gets 'em all moist."

Discussion in 'Alternative Fuels' started by NavyCuda, Jun 24, 2015.

  1. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    -Carl Brutananadilewski

    Well I certainly didn't intend on this, especially with my desire to get the Titan but somehow things changed.

    Today I drove home in a brand new 2015 Nissan Leaf SV.

    I'll post more as I get used to the car.
     
  2. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Was it the Leaf that had issues early on with fires?
    Ill be interested to here how it is on the highway.
    Environmental friendly cars aren't all bad. In fact im going to be very jealous of your fuel bill
     
  3. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    That's the reason I bought it. The payments would be about the same as my current fuel bill. The Z is terrible on fuel and it runs on premium so it seems like the right thing to do. Plus it's new, no nickle and diming and no risk of a $2500 or more job out of the blue or out of preventative maintenance.

    I don't give a sweet fuck about the environment though, I certainly didn't buy it for that reason!

    IMG_1373.JPG
     
    Ken likes this.
  4. Davies

    Davies Pikeman

    You granola munching hippies.
    Hemi is life, Hemi is love

    Gratz though!
     
  5. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    At least one female at Abbotsford Nissan and the girl from Hub International Insurance have their firearms licences!
     
  6. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    If you'd bought in chilliwack they'd have given you a gun with the car!
     
  7. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Also, PSA here for BCAA. Check out their insurance if you're a member. My monthly fee dropped nearly $100 when i switched from Hub.
     
  8. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    Well I've got about 140km on the leaf so far and I have to say that I'm really starting to enjoy driving this car. It's a completely different experience to normal econoboxes. The Leaf drives and behaves much like a premium luxury sedan, other than only having modest acceleration.
     
  9. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Is top speed comparable to anything else?
    Ie 120ish on highway?
     
  10. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    I've been up to 117kph but anything above about 105kph you go above 20kW of power to maintain that speed and that discharges the battery too quickly. 100kph will pretty much give you bang on your range estimate. My highway 1 jaunt is pretty short, so I can run with the pack without seriously effecting battery capacity, the rest of my journay is mostly on 80 and 60 speed limit roads so I don't go past 100kph anyways.
     
  11. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Fair enough
    Even with my truck i like to keep it at 80-90 for fuel efficiency.
     
  12. Dagmaar

    Dagmaar Crossbow Man Founders

    So you had your heart set on a Titan ....and bought a Leaf ?
    What changed your mind ?
     
  13. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    I still want the Titan, but there are two major problems to getting it. It isn't available yet and my current fleet of cars are tired. Depending on my financial situation when the Titan comes out I might consider trading the Leaf in on it.

    However at least for the time being I have a car to get me to and from work, has almost zero maintenance. The average kilometers per kilowatt hour right now is 6.4, the trickle charger and some other losses, call it 20kWh per 100km. So that's about $2.40 of electricity to go 100km. Our Maxima, or TopSecret's Precious, gets an average of around 9.4L/100km so around $10 per 100km. My Z... well it's hovering around 16.5L/100km and it needs premium @ $1.40/L or $23 per 100km. So from a cost standpoint, the Leaf is a bit over 100% better than the Z. I do about 2500km a month in my commute, so the fuel savings makes the payment on the car.
     
  14. Dagmaar

    Dagmaar Crossbow Man Founders

    At 2500 km per month , I can see why you chose it . I used to put higher mileage on my vehicles but now I put on very little . Gas conservation used to be very important to me , now , living in this little town where I put on minimum miles , it doesn't matter so much .
     
  15. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    For me, im looking forward to working 5km from home very soon.
    will drop fuel bill by a fuckload
     
  16. Dagmaar

    Dagmaar Crossbow Man Founders

    It does .
    When I lived in Calgary I probably filled up my car weekly . Now I drive a V8 truck and fill it maybe once a month . If I want to " go to town " and zip to Edmonton ( about 45 mins east ) , I take the Honda Crosstour .
     
  17. stevebc

    stevebc Lead Moderator Staff Founders

    How much is the gov't subsidy on the Leaf?
     
  18. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    Between Nissan and the BC gov, $9000 in incentives. If I follow through I can get an additional $3250 from the scrap-it program to scrap the focus and replace it with the Leaf.

    So list was $36k but I financed $27,000.
     
  19. stevebc

    stevebc Lead Moderator Staff Founders

    Don't take this personally, but I object as a taxpayer having to subsidize a vehicle that can't stand on it's own merits. Face it, you wouldn't have bought it if the price was $9000 higher, and I'm getting to pay for your decision.

    And the only way Nissan has a part of that subsidy is because somewhere, someone at some level of gov't is directly subsidizing them for this car. So the taxpayer gets screwed twice.

    Left to me, I'd ensure that if the consumer wants these things so badly, they would have to pay the ENTIRE cost: ZERO subsidies. Sink or swim.

    Did they give you an estimate on battery life, and replacement cost when it craps out?
     
  20. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    I would have to say that you're right, but before I bought the car. The $9000 of incentives was what pushed me over the edge to buy the car. I've only put about 250km on the car so far now and I can honestly say knowing what I know now and if I could afford it, I would pay the additional $9000 in a heartbeat. The electric car is not a perfect car, due to limited range and long charge times, but if it does suit your commute there is nothing better. I cannot put into words how much different and better the electric car is. I put driving the Leaf on par with driving my Q45, which in 1994 was a $63,000 car.

    Nissan does have an exchange program, I didn't look at it too closely to be honest. As they make changes to the battery it is possible to upgrade to a newer, higher capacity battery. I'm aware of battery degradation issues, but even at the worst case I have a fair amount of breathing room in my commute having chargers at work and at home. The basic warranty on the car is 100,000km or 5 years. The warranty on the battery capacity is the same, there is some allowable degradation but I can't remember the exact numbers. However the battery is warrantied for 8 years or 160,000km to remain functioning.

    The car is really well optioned out, is very comfortable and for what you get is priced extremely well. I agree on you that we shouldn't be subsidizing part of the cost of a new car purchase but can you blame me for taking advantage of it? I don't feel so bad about it, because I have the opportunity to encourage other people to consider the electric car for their commutes. Not for the environment. Not to save the trees. Because it's a better car.
     
  21. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Let's be honest though, given a choice that is otherwise equal, being "green" or environmentally friendly isn't a bad thing. Being overtly damaging to the planet, for the sake of being damaging makes no sense whatsoever to me at all.
     
  22. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    I hate that the Leaf is a green car and all the connotations that go with it. I don't give a fuck about the environment because I don't believe that man is doing anything worse to the planet than it has done to itself. Other than perhaps nuclear weapons testing, which maybe the planet doesn't care about but it sure has some negative side effects for us.

    The last thing I wanted to ever been seen as is someone who bought a car to save the Earth. I bought it because it makes sense for my commute and now that I own it and I'm spending time with it I realize how capable it really is and how much better a traction motor is than an internal combustion engine for moving a vehicle.
     
  23. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Ill rephrase.
    Im not and never will promote the hemp socks and not showering bullshit.
    And I definitely see your point of the connotation of driving a green car.
    The implication being that you somehow feel superior for it.|
    I hate that too
    But would you go out of your way to be more damaging to the environment as a whole?
    For instance the people that intentionally tamper with their diesel engines to make them burn dirty, as an anti-green protest.

    I won't go out of my way terribly so to be green, but my point was, you seem to be quite adamant that you didn't buy it for the green aspect, which is totally cool, but i just don't see a need to be "anti-green" (apart from your stated reasons of the pretentious connotations that run with it)
     
  24. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    Most diesel guys who say that, say it to piss off people who waste their time complaining about rolling coal.

    The main reason they smoke so bad is bad tuning and I'm guilty of this. A turbodiesel is very underpowered before the turbocharger makes boost. Due to the high boost levels diesels run, they have a second problem, that the turbocharger is designed to deal with the total mass airflow at full boost. Well the average turbo diesel runs well about a 2:1 pressure ratio, some factory turbo diesels are running above 3:1. This means that when there is no boost the mass airflow isn't sufficient to drive the turbine with enough force to generate the mass airflow needed. On a stock tune, the engine slowly ramps up the fuel until the turbo spools and then you get full fuel. On a modified pickup, they dump more fuel and while some of that fuel is unburned and comes through the exhaust as black smoke it helps to spool the turbo faster by raising the EGT which increases the velocity of the exhaust gas, driving the turbine harder... etc. etc...

    While the greenies like to complain about the soot and unburned fuel, it's really only dirty and unsightly. It does very little, if any measurable damage to the environment.

    Then again I also don't have a problem with burning tires on a bon fire while everyone is standing around drinking. Smoke goes up, what's the problem?!
     
  25. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Its more about the idea than that example. Im the first to admit im woefully uneducated about cars.
    my reference was to the movement that seemed to have intentional black smoke rolling from stacks, with no benefit to power, and often a detriment to fuel economy. If that is in fact propaganda by the greenies, i apologize for my misinformation.
    As i asked though, is it the actual act of being environmentally friendly that your opposed to,or the high and mighty attitude of people like Elizabeth May that you are opposed to?
     
  26. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    The high and mighty attitude, but worse yet the attitude that encourages people to believe conforming through taxation or cap and trade schemes will work.

    Running note for the Leaf. Mirror is too large for the scented tree, and there isn't a good place to hang the scented tree in the car. They've been around for decades and still no manufacture has a dedicated hook that is out of the way and keeps the tree off the interior bits?
     
  27. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Fair enough!
    And as to your second point, i bought one of those air vent clip on things. They work well enough, and last 2-3 months.
     
  28. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    The scented stuff, the trees or the clip on things can cause damage to interior surfaces if the liquid rubs off. I like the trees because they can hang freely and probably won't make contact with the interior. Also, royal pine is a nice scent.
     
  29. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Ahh. That rules out the clothes hanger then too
     
  30. stevebc

    stevebc Lead Moderator Staff Founders

    If it's a better car, people will buy it at the true price, you said so yourself. There's no excuse for soaking the taxpayer. All that says to me is that in the marketplace, it's a loser. The market has already spoken on the electric car: it isn't interested.

    Not to mention the gov't has zero business getting into the auto industry.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to guilt trip you- I hope it works out well for you. I just have a problem with a lot of the green agenda, so much of it based on lies, and garbage science.
     
  31. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    I totally agree with you. I do think that the electric car is building a good name for itself, even if slowly. As far as driving is concerned I'm sold. As far as the battery, only time will tell. If the electric car does one thing, it makes you think about the energy you're using to get places and has made me start calculating the differences in energy costs between electricity and gasoline to do the same work. $0.21 to pickup take out or $1.30... Actually if one was to take it a step further, not only is the government using tax payer money to subsidize electric cars but they're also denying themselves future tax revenue from the sale of gasoline.

    I also agree on this point, once the government gets involved money is thrown away, wasted and results are lackluster.

    I don't take it as a guilt trip. You make a totally valid point that I agree with, all that I can say is that I took advantage of an option that solved my problem. Sometimes you have to get a little bit dirty to get ahead! So taking a government incentive on an electric car is about as dirty as you're going to see me get!
     
  32. Grip

    Grip Archer Founders

    I would be curious to hear how your hydro bill changed. Can you post that up when you get it?

    And ya, I have to agree with Steve... No taxpayer rebates.
     
  33. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    The nice thing with the electric car is how easy it is to calculate energy use! So for 2500km/month I should be about $48 a month. It will be a bit harder to verify that as my charging will be split up between home and work. I'll do my best to get a number for you next month though!
     
  34. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    Well I'm already past 600km. Today while messing around with the navigation system as I waited at the train crossing I figured out how to set the maintenance reminders.
     
  35. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    What sort of maintenance does it require above and beyond or different to a petrol or diesel vehicle?
     
  36. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    I've been thinking about this some more.

    The big problem the electric car faces that people demand too many tasks from one car. Most North American families have two cars anyways so why not have a car dedicated specifically to commuting.

    Having the very small experience I've had with the car so far I think that incentive programs are a worth while investment. It's a massive undertaking for a mainstream manufacture to build a car against the status quo. The electric car has the potential to change the way we think about transport. The elimination of the gas station as a necessary stop in your commute is a nice feeling. My routine is very simple. Plug the car in when I get to work, unplug it when I leave. Plug it in when I get home, unplug when I leave. I'm still trickle charging, but even at that I find this is so much more convenient than walking in the gas station giving them my interac card, pumping $60+ of fuel, going back inside and paying. In terms of my commute I'm independent of the gas station and totally reliant on BC Hydro.

    The electric car has the potential to free Canadians of outside sources of energy and here in BC we have lots of energy. So I think it's a worth while investment that could benefit our economy... Or be wasted like so many other things...

    every 12,000km - Rotate Tires.
    every 24,000km - Replace brake fluid, change cabin air filter, battery inspection/test*
    168,000km - Replace coolant

    Tires and brakes as needed.

    *While under warranty, to maintain the battery warranty.

    Car 5yrs or 100,000km
    Battery 8yrs or 168,000km

    To the best of my knowledge I did not purchase any extended warranty coverage.
     
  37. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    So minus the oil of a traditional car, it's comparable?
    Interesting. I was wondering if the battery needed any kind of upkeep.
    if i didn't need a truck id consider switching.
    Ive always kinda liked the Tesla though....maybe when i win the lottery.
     
  38. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    A conventional car has hundreds of moving parts in the engine and transmission. There are all kinds of potential failure points, ranging from a leaking water pump to a rusted off exhaust and everything in between. The rotating parts of an electric car can be counted in 10's. So many fewer points of failure. There is no controlled explosion and hot exhaust gas. It's so much simpler. A DC battery pack feeding a solid state(no moving parts) inverter which in turn powers the AC motor which can also act as an alternator, turning braking force into electricity which goes back into the inverter and back into the batteries to be used again.

    So I would say the comparisons end at the wheels.
     
  39. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    Fair enough!
     
  40. Dagmaar

    Dagmaar Crossbow Man Founders

    I wonder if they will ever come up with a viable truck that's electric or hybrid .
    That would be nice .
     
  41. Ken

    Ken Crossbow Man

    If Henry Ford hadn't been 3 parts genius 2 parts evil, we'd have it already. The technology was there at the same time, Ford just won out.
    kinda like Beta lost to VHS
     
  42. Davies

    Davies Pikeman

    Yea the tesla is pretty cool looking.
    A cooler looking car sells better than an ugly one, most electric cars look kinda cheap and goofy. I think that's probably a big reason they arn't as popular.
    How far can that thing go on a single charge, from 100% to absolute 0? If you were driving like a sensible person(not wailing on the throttle)
    Does it use more battery on big hills like conventional motor uses more fuel?
     
  43. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    The guess-o-meter usually reads about 157-162km on a full charge depending on how much the climate control has to work. It's pretty close but shouldn't be trusted so I try to leave myself at least 20km of estimated room.

    The battery size is rated at 24kilowatt hours, but from what I've read it has about 20 usable. How you drive, hills etc have an effect on range much like fuel mileage. The motor is 80kW, so in one hour and maximum output the motor would consume 80kWh, but since the battery only has 20kWh available the battery would be depleted in ~15min(I hope I got my math right!).

    For normal driving I rarely see acceleration exceeding 30kW but some hills get to 50kW. 65kph seems to be around 7-8kWs on the flat, 80kph is around 12 and 115 is about 22kW. Maximum regen is 30kW.

    I know it looks like a bunch of math but the electric car shows you and really gets you thinking about how much energy you're using. It's precise and accurate. It's totally different than looking down at the fuel gauge.

    So far I find that even though I have a good spare 60km of range each way due to charging, I still try to let the car drive as economically as possible. Instead of driving at 30kph over the speed limit I'm only 5-15 over. I try to stay under 95kph unless I'm on hwy 1 and then I'll run 115 because it's such a short leg and I have range to spare.

    The cruise control is fantastic, especially for my commute so I find that I'm engaging it as soon as I can which also means the motor only consumes as much power as it takes to hold that speed.

    I'm not trying to save the earth, but somehow this car is making me notice and conserve the energy I use, even though it's cheap and readily available.
     
  44. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    So apparently we can look at our daily usage, the car certainly shows up on the hydro bill but when compared to a day where the dryer got used lots, it is a little more than a $1 difference. So I would say the car is holding pretty true to my estimated consumption and operating cost thus far. Passed 800km today. I had to drive a gasoline powered pickup today. Not smooth. Electric is smooth and quiet!
     
  45. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    The little Leaf has just over 1100km now. I've had to drive an F150 a couple times and I must say that I prefer electric now without a doubt. The worst part is I am starting to feel a high and mighty attitude about the car. Thankfully not in regards to the environment but rather looking at the poor suckers that have to deal with internal combustion engines. It's starting to sink in that I've put 1100km on a car without putting a drop of gasoline into it.

    I've had to pass a few people, but for the most part I now stay within 10kph over the speed limit. I haven't found the sweetspot yet but without question it's below 105kph. The Leaf is having a very positive effect on my driving.

    If I was to identify my major complaints with the car thus far:

    -Center Console cup holders are under the navigation panel, a tall insulated 20oz coffee mug will not fully seat in the cup holder and it rubs against the navigation panel.
    -Customization of the driver information is almost non-existent. I would like to see my instant and average energy consumption while getting to see battery percentage. Currently battery percentage is on a separate page.
    -Cruise Control guessing, the cruise control tells you when it's locked in but doesn't tell you what speed it's locked in at. I would like to be able to set the exact speed. I rarely see more than 2km/h deviation, especially on down hills but it would still be nice to set an exact number.

    Well for now that's my complaints about the Leaf.
     
  46. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    Picked up my 240v 30amp electric vehicle charging station from Nissan today. Hopefully I'll get to install it on Monday. Once this unit goes in at work I'll be fully charged in a maximum of 4 hours and I'll be able to do any running around that I need too with plenty of range to spare to get home!

    Hopefully in a month or two I'll be able to install another one at home, but the trickle charger will do nicely for quite a while as an overnight charge is enough to get me to work. I got home from some running around and the charger at Nissan was acting up so I had 10km to spare on the guess oh meter. I would say that I have felt range anxiety but it isn't as bad as I thought it would be and this is while only using the trickle charger. Once I have both charging stations I doubt very much that I'll feel range anxiety again.
     
  47. Dagmaar

    Dagmaar Crossbow Man Founders

    What's the cost of upgrading to be assured the max range ?
     
  48. NavyCuda

    NavyCuda Grand Nagus Staff Founders

    The level 2 charging stations are pretty badly over priced.

    I bought the first one through Nissan and it was $1000 after taxes. When I get the second one I'll buy it online but it will be the Nissan unit and after shipping and taxes it'll be just shy of $1000. You can build them yourself for around $300ish but I'd rather have the hardware they put in at Nissan dealerships and in the long run is a minor investment that should have a long lifespan.

    I could live off the level 1 charger that comes with the car and use publicly available charging stations but I'd rather be self sufficent.

    Putting the Level 2 in at work will give me enough range to cover running around and still be able to get home.
     
  49. Dagmaar

    Dagmaar Crossbow Man Founders

    Definitely not something I would want to homemade build ....mainly because it probably makes your warranty void .
    I looked at the Leaf on the Nissan website . The only thing I'm not crazy about is its range . The hybrids give me a better option as I could switch to gas when necessary . I'd us an efficient vehicle mostly to travel to Edmonton , toot around all day , then come home . At about 100 km one way , the Leaf just wouldn't do .
    As is , I drive our Honda Crosstour when I go to the city . Not sure of mpg , but it's a hell of a lot better then my truck , about $20 for the car , $60+ For the truck .
    I kind of like the Prius though . Had two friends with them and they speak positively to the cars abilities .
    If I lived in a city like Lethbridge , or had a short commute only , I'd definitely consider the full electric , mainly because the giant reduction in moving parts makes it a real gem .
     
  50. Dagmaar

    Dagmaar Crossbow Man Founders

    You are the only person I've met with a full electric .
    I'm looking forward to your ongoing reviews and insight into this amazing mode of personal transport .
     

Share This Page